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From Presentation to Participation: Shifting the Role of Stakeholders

Joyce Lee and Bec Sareff-Hibbert (Atlassian), Bo Liu (Miro), and Amanda Gelb (Lyft)

Stakeholders are an essential component of a user researcher's mission. Educating them on research's impact and potential creates opportunities for more budget, buy-in, and breadth. This panel shares experiences from UXRs who have focused on building stronger relationships with their stakeholders, and the impacts it's having for their insight impact.

Specifically, this panel explores:

  • What precipitated the need for a stakeholder shift
  • How each researcher started their stakeholder shift
  • Things to consider before starting a stakeholder shift
  • The ways in which their work has improved because of the shift


Chloe Dawson:
My name is Chloe Dawson. A warm welcome to our panelists and all of the new and familiar friends in the chat. This discussion focuses on the ways that we can, and really must, evolve and adapt our relationships with stakeholders. Stakeholders are critical to both bringing action to our insights and activating and advocating for our practices more broadly.

We've gathered a group of amazing panelists who are thinking about this relationship with stakeholders in some really cool and unique ways. I'll toss it over to our panelists for a short introduction to themselves and to share what motivated you when you were thinking about the desire to shift your relationship with stakeholders? Bo, want to go first?

Bo Liu:
Thanks, Chloe. Hey everyone, I'm Bo. I'm a senior researcher working at Miro, where I lead a strategic research to shape how Miro serve most important use cases around collaboration. Actually, one of the use cases is actually about how people use Miro for UX research and collaborate with their stakeholders. If any of you in a call has data request or pinpoint in place, send that my way.

Speaking of what motivate me to join this panel discussion, well first of all, to me, it's very natural to invest in stakeholder relationship building because most of us spend the majority of our time in the work and it's even longer than the time that we spend with our families, our friends, or our pets. Why now just charge the time that we spend with the people who are working together with and meaningful connections with each other.

As for the unique challenge that I was experiencing in terms of stakeholder's relationship and management was about how to level up the research maturity with the teams who are now familiar with UX research. Our culture is very customer-centric of course, and we already got a seat at the table and research is considered a very important element in the predictable lifecycle. At the same time, a lot of people that we are collaborating with they haven't worked with the researchers in the past.

They don't know how to involve us in their productive process or collaborate with us. Today, I would like to discuss with these amazing researchers in our panel and to share our stories and both of ideas.

Chloe Dawson:
Thanks, Bo. We can't wait. Amanda, what about yourself?

Amanda Gelb:
Hi, everyone. I'm Amanda Gelb. I'm a staff researcher at Lyft and this week is actually my four-week, I mean four year of Lyft Diversity. In that time I've gotten to research riders, drivers, bike share, just a host of different things. Right now, I'm focusing on mapping, which is really fun because maps are always inaccurate representations of what is happening in the real world.

What motivated me to get into more stakeholder involvement is in the past, prior to Lyft, I had experienced that soul sucking experience of the research is pointing in one direction with a neon blinking light and the executive goes in the total opposite direction. I had a partner of research misrepresent the research that we had done in meetings, those kinds of really unfortunate circumstances.

When I got to Lyft, I was the first researcher in New York in the office and they were a number of folks in the office who all first didn't know that they had demand. Then, once I built demand had a lot of demand. I really leaned on my partners to conduct research with me in order to scale myself in that first year there.

Chloe Dawson:
Wow. Thanks, Amanda. Joyce, what about for yourself?

Joyce Lee:
I'm Joyce. I'm based in the Bay Area. I'm a researcher at Atlassian. I've been there for about a little over three years. I worked on various aspects of the business, but right now I'm focused on Trello. In terms of shifting my relationship with stakeholders, I think part of this how to do with adapting to COVID naturally, so combating Zoom fatigue and all the kind of blurred work-life boundaries that came up as a result of that.

Atlassian is where I work and obviously we have people spread across time zones, so having limited attention from people was another aspect. I think part of it is also personal though, so wanting to just level up my career. Previously, I had worked in communications and had this creative visual practice on the side as well. Thinking about how it to fold in those skills and those elements of my identity into my work as well.

Chloe Dawson:
I love that choice, so happy to have you. Bec, what about for yourself?

Bec Sareff Hibbert:
Hi, I'm Bec. Thanks, Chloe. I'm UX researcher also at Atlassian. I've been there for just on three years this week. In my time I've been working on at various different JIRAs versions of JIRAs, our flagship product. I was really motivated to start investigating how I could shift how I engage with stakeholders. As Tracy said, we've always been a distributor team, we've always been around the world, but remote working really stepped that up.

I'm a bit of a nerd for operational efficiency. The initial spark for me was noticing that I could do things better and that I was doing repetitive work and I was repeating my efforts in different places. At that time we also had really low research coverage in my area and I needed to hop around between teams. I was thinking about what can I do to make sure that those insights live on and grow and flourish when I'm not keeping an eye on what the team is doing?

How can I deputize them to be effective custodians of that insight in my absence? That really drove me to experiment further.

Chloe Dawson:
I love that. Thank you so much, Bec. If you can all see, there's so many really cool perspectives it sounds like that has really motivated each of you to really shift into really thinking about your relationships with stakeholders. I'm curious, let's dig a little bit deeper into that. Does the stakeholder shift look like for you and your team now? Let's see. Bo, would you like to start us off again?

Bo Liu:
I've definitely observed a lot of changes and a lot of level up in research maturity. For example, in the past, maybe people they say research is like a magic wand. When they assume that if they have done one or two research studies and their product will become user-friendly right away. Of course, they will get disappointed later, or they see research as a onetime thing.

They use that to test their ideas and see whether that work out or test a feature. I think now with a lot of effort that we've been putting, we've seen people really changing their mindset about UX research they say it's a learning process, it's continuous process. It's not like you do one thing and you are good. I think it's a continuous effort and a lot of practice we have done.

It's really hard to condense that with a few sentence, but I want to share three tips that I find most effective in our process. The first one is to understand and our stakeholders and also build some in relationship with them because as researchers we are the expert in understanding users needs. Most of us we also have the snowball mission to serve these needs with excellent user experience. For our stakeholders, they are also our users and they are the user of our research findings.

It's equally important to understand their needs, goals and expectations and pinpoint as well. Also, build connections and making ourself consider as part of the team and to have the transform them. Following that, the second tip I want to share is to win our credit and shape ourself as the expert whose opinion, whose advice they should follow, and how to achieve that. I would say my rule of thumb is always start from something small.

For example, like usability project or for example inside sprint to help team identify the low-hanging fruits and so they can see the value of UX research and then you can promote a success and skew it up to something bigger. That is more effective than starting UX revolution at the very beginning because people are, most people they are afraid of uncertainty and big changes. The last, but not the least is to have a strong opinion of yourself.

Of course, UX researchers, we are influencers and we are not the decision maker, not always decision maker for product decisions. It does not mean that we cannot be prescriptive or being assertive about in our research recommendations in advice that we are giving to our teams. I remember when I was academia researcher, most of the wordings that we're using was like, "It's possible or it might be, and it could be."

All of these kind of words because we want to stay neutral and we want to show that in a way unbiased. Also, we want to have the space with other researchers. When you're working industry, if you are in-house and your audience is different, they are not researchers, they are your stakeholders and they're waiting for your expectation. They're expecting you to show them which direction that they should go.

You are the expert, you are doing a research and you are speaking for the user, it's very important that you also give them a clear message for which direction that they would go.

Chloe Dawson:
I love that though. Just some really great call-out there. I love the three point whether you've outlined that for all of us to think through some actual real skills and ways that we can approach this. Thank you. Amanda, what about by yourself?

Amanda Gelb:
I love what Bo said about being the expert, positioning yourself as an expert. That's something I definitely leaned into more as I am parallel, have created more opportunities for my partners to be involved in research.Again, in the early days when I was at Lyft New York and we were all in the office, the first thing I did was set up a bunch of lunch and learns, speak at town halls.

Put myself out there, but more as an advocate for research. I feel like no matter what role I've been in or a company I've been at, we always need to be educating and evangelizing for what research is and what it stands for. Part of that is also I found most of my partners think that research is the interviews, conducting those conversations. Whereas research is setting up the right question, coming up with the hypothesis.

Determining what the recruiting looks like, then conducting the interviews after you've come up with a thoughtful discussion guide or set of activities or whatever it is, methodology, then there's analysis, then there's synthesis, then there's a report and then next steps. Just being really clear on all of those different elements, being equally research. Then, for me, shifting my thoughts and how stakeholders get involved is thinking about how I can include at least some other folks in each of those different elements.

One thing that we did at Lyft is created a rapid research program, which is a way that gets our partners in front of our users themselves, interviewing them. I'm the coach, I've set up templates for them, it's all very structured, but it forces them to take the wheel and sit in front of our users and hear their perspectives firsthand. That I would say, I'm just blown away by the impact that has over me going off and pulling the perfect video or whatever it is.

Having someone experience that firsthand. I think that can happen for your partners if you're interviewing, if they're doing the interviewing or if they're listening in and they're note-taking or debriefing with you afterwards or rewatching a video that you recorded of a conversation it can be, there are a number of different ways into that. Just thinking more about so much of our time that we spend on the end product.

I've taken a step back and thinking about how I shift towards thinking about the people that are involved in building that and product back. Bec, I think you said this, but I'm moving on sadly, I've never been in any role in my 15-year career in which I've been able to stay with one team building one specific part of a feature for months on end.

It's really incumbent on who goes through the research with me that they take those insights forward, that they are championing our users and what we learned, not just on my behalf but on everyone's behalf to make that better product. I put a lot more of my time and effort into that partner piece for sure.

Chloe Dawson:
Such a great call out, Amanda on that intentionality and setting up the space and that experience. I love that you isolated that oftentimes people think of it's just the questions, but it's actually everything that's happening around those questions that come into play.

I also love your call about empowering others to also take ownership over the process so that they too, like you mentioned, can be champions and move this forward when you cannot. Thank you so much for that. Bec, what about yourself? I see you smiling there.

Bec Sareff Hibbert:
I think it's so incredibly important to empower us stakeholders in the research process. Again, we can't be everywhere at once. They're the ones who are going to be building the thing. They need to be really engaged and really champions, as you say, Amanda, for the insights. I'm totally agree with that. I am more focused actually on the closer to the end of the research cycle in terms of where I'm experimenting.

I'm really inspired by a flipped learning approach where you give out reading ahead of time and then use your synchronous time for discussion. Also, by remote best practices because as we know making this panel happen, sync time is really precious. I want to make the absolute most of it when I've got all my stakeholders in a room.

I really believe that if I can make that time, a time for discussion and collaboration and questioning and pulling at threads and poking at holes and things like that, that time will be best spent in embedding those insights really firmly and really learning them deeply rather than passively watching share back or engaging in that way.

My hope with that is that as my stakeholders go forward, they become at least part or whole owners of that insight and it becomes something that they can advocate for really confidently. That's my aim.

Chloe Dawson:
I love that. Joyce, what about for yourself?

Joyce Lee:
I love what Amanda said about constantly having to evangelize. I think I've been lucky and a lot of the teams that I work with are pretty directly engaged. A lot of the thinking that I've been doing is more about expanding your sphere of influence because I think we're always trying to build up that research empire and get that visibility throughout the organization.

Like Bec, we're often thinking about how to be more proactive in terms of the engagement that we get. Really combating that Zoom fatigue like I was mentioning before. Focusing on active engagement over passive consumption. I think one thing that I worked on for a bit or one strategy was around watch parties. People say for instance, if they can't come to a particular session to observe or for leadership for instance, they might want a kind of roll up.

That's a way to curate this experience and really lower the barrier to entry so you don't have to worry about no shows or maybe a bad recruit. You're curating the content for quality and making sure it's really impactful. It's also this collective viewing experience. I think another approach is around thinking about trivia, specifically testing around insights. I think that's an interesting way to get people to directly challenge their assumptions and also boost their memory.

I think like Bec, we think about pedagogy and how do we make insights stick. There's lots of different flavors that you can try. You can do anonymous approach. There's different tools you can use where people get to participate and don't have to put their name on the line. You can also, if you feel comfortable or you have a different team culture, have people put in their names and they can win prizes. There's lots of different ways to make research a bit more engaging for stakeholders.

Chloe Dawson:
I love that, Joyce. I also love your call out too, how we're even reinforcing some of those right engagement markers for ourselves. Like you said, you could have it anonymous, it has its pros and cons or you could add a name and have some type of a reward to provide to them at the end of the day. I love also your call-out to pivoting.

Understanding that not everyone can make everything or be available in that moment, but how are you creating access or some spaces for them to be able to engage that you are able to get their feedback. I love that call out. How would you all say your stakeholders have changed throughout this process?

I'm actually going to start with Bec because I see you smiling again and so I feel like you have something to share right off the top of your head, so let's start there.

Bec Sareff Hibbert:
So true. I had a real win the other day, so it's top of mind for me. I really loved seeing my stakeholders forget that I created an insight. That moment of forgetting has been really gratifying for me. Watching them become the advocates in a room st coming to a meeting, but staying quiet and hearing them become the advocate for that particular finding or a particular insight piece of data has been really exciting.

The other day, I had one of my senior leaders quote back some research to me, quite disapprovingly, we have to make sure that when we ship this it meets this particular standard. That was one of my findings from 18 months ago. I said, "Yes, that is very important." Inside I was doing a little dance, but on the outside I was very business professional.

Chloe Dawson:
Of course. Amanda, what about for yourself?

Amanda Gelb:
The actual people who are showing up the numbers of people who are becoming more engaged. I've focused on everyone initially and now the newbies who, whoever joins Lyft, I'm like, "You're fresh meat. You don't know about research. You have your own take. Join me on this journey as I tell you what research is here." Being able to change their perspective then, they're with me, they're with research forever for the most part.

Somewhere I think Joyce mentioned this also, that once someone experiences research, they're just on board for a while. I really focus on new people now that many folks know who I am. Then, seeing those numbers, your note-taking signups, fill up the people who want to observe also question fidelity. Thinking about how to evolve the types of questions that we're asking.

Are people going to want this in the future is not something that we know most folks are able to answer for themselves. Just again, that education piece about what makes good questions and working on that together and then seeing that investment really pay off in our research kickoffs in the ways that we come together. Just being better partners to research. Understanding that we do have a lot of demand and that we're trying to do the best that we can and scale across all of the requests.

On my end that's really communicating what the trade-offs are. We could research this, but we might have to wait for a month on that or whatever it is because our timelines can be a little slower even if we're moving fast and whatnot. Then, hearing that like Bec was saying, echoed back to me of, "I know you're doing this research right now, so would you consider this or let's engage in what that means."

Just having those conversations with that level of respect for each other and for our disciplines is also just incredibly heartwarming. It makes me feel like I have true partners in this.

Chloe Dawson:
Yes, I love that. That's such a wonderful thing to experience when you really feel like you have partners in the work that you're doing. Again, coming back to what you mentioned before, how you set yourself up for success in that really matters. That's what we're talking about today. Bo, what about for yourself? I saw you nodding a lot as Amanda was speaking. What was on your mind?

Bo Liu:
I kept smiling when Amanda and Bec shared their stories because I simply really engaged their stakeholder in the research process. Everyone was so excited about research and you really observed these changes. For me, it's also the same because initially some people maybe they feel only researchers should do research, just only engineers do the coding. Now, research has actually become a team sport.

I think that's really wonderful. Also, another thing I want to share is one of the beauty of research is it's really helped the team to build a vision that every single team member they share and they feel intrinsically that they want to make that happen because it was part of the research. They've seen the insights and they've identified the business opportunity and the user needs. They want to build it and they know why.

No leadership tell them, "You have to do it or you have to do that." They want to do it out themselves even the engineers. Actually, I have a story that I want to share and it's just happened recently. One of the team that I'm working together with, so this summer they went through some chaos. There are some top-down changes for their priority and they had to shift their folks from one area to another. At the beginning, they were very lost and very frustrated of course.

After I took them along the research process from mixed method research study from beginning to the end, they gradually fell in love with this topic. They discovered a lot of opportunities. They go, "This is such a nice area. We have all of things we can work on here." Also, thanks to amazing work that my team has done and now actually this topic has become one of the most important area in our company.

I'm very proud of them. At the same time, that's also the magic that a research can create for our teams.

Chloe Dawson:
Yes, I love that call out and also the invitation that you're extending. We know we are in love with what we do, but when you can help someone else fall in love with what you do, it just hits differently. I love that, thank you so much, Bo. What about for you, Joyce? How has this shown up in your wheelhouse?

Joyce Lee:
I think it's a fun question because it's just all of the wins. Some of these I can't really claim credit for. It's more of successes I've observed on our research team more broadly. I think one great example is just growth in demand for headcount. Obviously, it varies per a company, but we've seen teams flip engineer or designer headcount into researcher headcount just because they acknowledge the necessity of research on a team, which is always very gratifying.

It shows that existing researcher that they worked with produced really great work and cultivated more of that demand from them. I think Amanda talked about presenting at town halls earlier, but just generally getting asked to present recurring insights at these monthly meetings that might happen. There's always a spot reserved for you, I think really is gratifying as well. Showing that they desire to hear your point of view and really it's expensive.

It could be hundreds of people and 10 minutes of their time. That's a lot of money. That I think to me indicates value in our perspectives. I think one much more concrete specific example to me was one of the first things I worked on at Atlassian was a secondary research review. Part of the way I wanted to socialize it was at as comics and I was like, "How do I make this go viral?" I was like, "I have to make comics."

I thought about different things like, "Maybe we should do the world cup related because the world cup was happening." That's what I had settled on. I think maybe six months later, one of the heads of design was like, "We need to print these out as posters and put them all over the place."

That was similar to the other stories of when work you do gets usurped in a positive way and there's a real sense of transference of ownership to stakeholders I think that's really great.

Chloe Dawson:
I love that call out, Joyce. I think you're also speaking to markers of success. Like you had mentioned that invitation to that meeting, that's your spot going forward for even if it's five minutes, that's a marker of success. That's something to celebrate. People reaching on saying, I love what you did here. Can we use this? Can we integrate this somewhere?

That is just such great call-outs too ways that we can also be aware for ourselves around markers of when we're doing the work and it's being really picked up and adopted into other people's processes and ways of working. That's amazing. In retrospect for the group, knowing what you know now, if you could do anything differently, what would it be? I'm going to start off with Amanda.

Amanda Gelb:
I would say definitely spending, let's say 5% more of my time on the branding, marketing, PR side of things. Thinking about my role and curating a Slack post that's going out to people or being embolden to share that not just with the six people that were following me and the particular project, but maybe the entire org, or maybe a bunch of different groups who are interested in that set of insights.

Thinking about fun music before workshops, running more workshops, bringing my partners into the process sooner, turning the spotlight on them, thinking about doing research kickoffs interestingly, the music as well. Then also, just being a partner to leadership. Again, I spoke earlier about the different stages of the traditional research project, but we as researchers are also amazing moderators.

Thinking about being seen as leaders that bring people together has gotten me in a lot of rooms I wouldn't have otherwise with senior folks because I was the one that was coming up with the activities for people to do or moderating a conversation or thinking about the breakout group questions or that kind of stuff. Also, just thinking about our roles a little more expansively.

Chloe Dawson:
Such a great call out. Bo, what about for yourself?

Bo Liu:
For me, well, thinking back, I don't think I will do anything differently, but there's one thing that I would like to share with everyone, which is about set of boundaries and make sure that we are working on the most strategic things in our work because just think about what we discussed today, sorry, there's some [inaudible 00:28:41] join the discussion. Just think about what we just discussed today.

There are actually a lot on our plate as UX researchers because conducting great research itself is not enough. We need to do advertising, promoting ourselves, promoting research, making our insights digestible and making it a creative to share it with them, feeling connections and sometimes maybe also a little politics. What I really want to say is thinking about many companies, they have the impression that if they hire UX people and their product will become user-friendly right away.

Maybe that's one of the reason a lot of UX practitioners will be struggling with their roles. I really want to say is learn to take care of yourself, be clear with yourself about what is you're willing to do and what is just too much. Remember, it's okay to fail for some time and then you'll learn from your mistakes, and we'll move to the next one.

Chloe Dawson:
I love the way you set that up. Again, just dropping some gems for us, some great food for thought as we're all thinking about our work and what we're doing next. That's such a great call out. Thank you for sharing that. Bec, what about for yourself?

Bec Sareff Hibbert:
I have such a similar perspective as you, Amanda. I was smiling thinking about that. Looking back when I first started experimenting with this approach, I was really focused on getting my information across and that was effective, but I don't think I was thinking big enough or ambitious enough. Recently, I had an opportunity because I had been moderating workshops in my area for so long, my product leader asked me to moderate a prioritization workshop.

I was able to bring that together so that my research findings discussion session became a part of that prioritization workshop. We were really front loading with those findings and staying really user focused. That supercharged my impact on the roadmap in a really material way, much more so than anything else I've done. I think one, yes, absolutely lean into your natural skillset.

It might seem a little left of field, but if I can make impact with what I'm doing, then that feels like my job. If I'm happy to do it, I'm going to do it. I make a lot of time for that kind of strategic work now probably 20% of my time even. The other one is to think big and be ambitious and not be swayed by prior experiences you've had with stakeholders. Just go big and place yourself in the seat and see what happens.

Chloe Dawson:
That's such a great call out, Bec about just I think earlier in the conference we were talking about bravery. Bec just mentioned just go big, go for it. I absolutely love that. Joyce, what about for yourself?

Joyce Lee:
I think in the beginning, for instance, if you find that things aren't going very well, it's easy to get upset about that. I heard a phrase, I think it was show someone on our team who said, "Get curious, not furious." Really thinking about why are things not going well, for instance, to help you ideate us to new ideas. I think I'm actually anti efficiency to counter Bec's earlier thought.

I think it is really important to carve out time for yourself to experiment. It can be quite tempting to templatize everything and do everything the same way every time. In some ways, I think that is not always going to be effective just because you need that novelty factor to keep drawing people in. Something could work the first time, but not land second or third time because you're doing the same thing over and over again.

I think it's really important to carve out that time for yourself. It's just helpful for a sense of personal meaning as well in terms of as you think about your career and not wanting to get burned out and continuing to be inspired. That's something that's really important to me. I think, you really want to keep things fresh and ideate, but you need time to do that. You really need to get yourself the room to do that.

In that way, I think that research in many ways can be more creative than design. Slightly hot take, but I think it's really important if you think about the longevity of your career just personally beyond your interactions within a team and the longevity of insights.

Bec Sareff Hibbert:
That's something that Joyce has actually inspired me to do more is to be more creative in my practice and to think of ways that I can embed that creativity into what I'm doing. It's definitely an impact she's having on us as researchers and the team as well.

Chloe Dawson:
I love that call out, Bec of just even mirroring this moment that Joyce's is someone who really embodies this and you can even feel it on your side of the team and that's amazing to hear. As we are coming to a close of our session, I know unfortunate, I can simultaneously hear all of the sighs in the room as we're closing out this session, I want to just talk a little bit around tactical tips.

You've already dropped some amazing gems throughout our discussion, but what tactical tips or tools, what do you say has best served you in your journey to enhancing stakeholder engagement? Let's start off with Bo.

Bo Liu:
Well, you are asking me and then I'll say Miro, what else could that be? Well now, just because I'm working at Miro, but also alongside of my research process, I use Miro to collaborate with my stakeholders starting from research intake and then we use Miro to embed different document like our research plan and [inaudible 00:34:56] guide, et cetera. You have everything at the same place, it's not advertisement, I'm just sharing my experience.

Also, I have a few notes. I think it's great that you have everything that's same place and also you can use that to collaborate with your stakeholders and bring them along the way. Actually, I created a Miro template for research project management and stakeholder collaboration. I can share that later and feel free to check out.

Chloe Dawson:
Excellent, thanks. Amanda, what about for yourself?

Amanda Gelb:
A more philosophical one I suppose is to conduct stakeholder interviews ourselves. I think there was a talk earlier on turning the lens inwards or folks that do just internal research, but just thinking about giving our core partners the microphone and it as a researcher, you're able to ask questions that you wouldn't be able to ask if you were just a one-on-one or a meeting with them.

It's more of an official capacity. Any kind of super juicy or potentially controversial thing that we think about taking on, I'll pause the team and say, "Wait, let me just get a few people's different takes and then we can iron out a lot of kinks earlier on that way that would have come up had we not had these conversations or had that data about our internal folks earlier."

The second is to just be super clear on how much time you are asking of your stakeholders and what you are going to be using their contribution for. If they are taking notes, for example, I will say, "Thank you for taking notes. I'll email this." I'll say it verbally. Thanks for taking notes. I will be reviewing all of the notes to create my final report and then the sneaky education piece that I was talking about. "By the way, make sure you're writing observations, not just your ideas based on what someone said and here's what that looks like."

Templates are also really huge. If it's notes, creating a note-taking template, having people I think they're shy, the crew book was about, don't make me think, or one of the famous researchers books was about that. Applying that to our stakeholders as well, how can I make your life as easy as possible so you can just step into this interview or the analysis that I'm asking you to do. I've created two slides for you to fill out and it's really clear you need to watch this 10-minute video and fill out these two slides and you've contributed.

I've done collaborative lit reviews. I'm in experimenting with that. Sending out an article and then saying, "Can you summarize it here? Here's the one liner TLDR and here's the summary paragraph or whatever it is." Just thinking about those different hooks in and making it as easy as possible to contribute.

Chloe Dawson:
I love that. Amanda. Bec, what about for yourself?

Bec Sareff Hibbert:
I think maybe also philosophically, I think a lot about taking the situation as it is and practicing radical acceptance. It's a tactical tool, it doesn't sound like it, but I think often we can get bogged down in our frustration about how things should be like I shouldn't have to do this, I shouldn't have to work this hard. I should be listening to research is the right thing to do.

I think honoring that feeling, but then taking the next step, which is, "Well, this is the situation I'm in, what am I going to do about it with what is available to me?" Sometimes that means working harder, but it gets you where you need to be in your impact.

Chloe Dawson:
Joyce, what about for yourself?

Joyce Lee:
I think that maybe one thing to take away is you can do a lot of things in a lot of different tools. For instance, the insights trivia thing I mentioned, you can use a specialized tool like Mentimeter or Kahoot! if you want to be fancy. You can also use Google forms or you can use Kino or Google Slides. There's many ways to, what is it? Peel an onion, something like that.

Loom is also a popular tool that we use quite widely at Atlassian for async [inaudible 00:38:51]. I think relating to that idea of carving out space, actually try to use lots of different tools. You can oftentimes really MacGyver them to do lots of things that you want them to do.

Chloe Dawson:
Well, on behalf of myself and the panelists just want to say thank you all for tuning in today. If you have any questions you know where to find us. Stay tuned for more.

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